In a rare TV appearance, Bidzina Ivanishvili, Honorary Chair of the ruling Georgian Dream party, spoke with journalist Magda Anikashvili, who asked the interviewee convenient questions with a ready-made subtext and echoed the interviewee. The almost 1.5 hour pre-recorded interview, aired on the pro-government Imedi TV channel just 5 days before the elections, and is seen as an attempt for the GD honorary chair to speak directly to GD voters and mobilize them.
Disclaimers
Ivanishvili began with an assessment of the pre-election atmosphere. “I can emphasize that this is a special environment. I would not say that it is particularly tense,” he said, citing the OSCE/ODIHR assessment, which he called “quite positive.”
“The statements [from the West] contain blackmail,” Ivanishvili continued, accusing the unknown Global War Party of coordinating them. However, he said, “it [these statements] did not work” because, he claimed, society had become angry. As for the U.S. sanctions, he said the same thing: “It had counter-effect for the very simple reason that it was blackmail based on non-objective information.” As for possible personal sanctions against him, he said he did not expect any further steps from the West.
He then accused the authorities and bureaucrats, representing Georgia’s international partners (whom he did not name) of trying to create a “regretful reality.” He said these people are coordinating with the Georgian opposition.
Although, he added, “The second day [of the election] is not decisive; every day […] until the war is not over […] will be very tense,” adding, “We must be careful.”
Several times throughout the interview, Ivanishvili denounced the “pseudo-liberal ideology”, saying that its aim is to mislead people and convince them in “virtual reality.” Ivanishvili said: “These statements that we hear come from this context: as if Georgia is authoritarian, as if there is a democratic backsliding in Georgia, as if Georgia is far from Europe,” Ivanishvili said. Instead, he claimed, “Now there is a real democracy in Georgia,” which he said even Europe is lacking.
Risks that Georgia faces
In yet another anti-Western propaganda tone, Ivanishvili recalled 2008 NATO’s Bucharest Summit and blamed NATO’s “real managers,” who are “not member states”, for denying Georgia and Ukraine membership in the Alliance. The reason, according to him was that they knew, and allegedly planned, the “opening of the second front” already back then.
Ivanishvili went on to discuss the war in Ukraine, stressing that NATO is not directly involved in the war against Russia and only helps with weapons and money. He said dragging Georgai into war was already planned in 2008 and this was the reason that Georgia was not accepted into NATO. “Against this background, [Mikheil] Saakashvili gave us a good rehearsal and dragged us into the first war in 2008,” he said, adding, “Then they wanted to open the second front in Georgia [against Russia] in the war in Ukraine.”
Ivanishvili even linked the resignation of former PM Giorgi Gakharia to the “second front” narrative, noting that the resignation coincided with the start of the war in Ukraine and was done “in order to tear down the Georgian Dream government and let those forces come to power that would immediately drag Georgia into war.” He added: “These attempts continue today […] this is the main attempt of which the society must be vigilant.”
In addition, Ivanishvili also mentioned the tensions in the Middle East, reminding society that this region is also close to Georgia: “We have to be careful not to take a wrong step, otherwise we may get an irreversible disaster,” he said.
“De Facto” Sanctions
Commenting to U.S. Ambassador Dunnigan statement, who had said Ivanishvili was prioritizing his financial interests over those of the state, Ivanishvili refuted and went into describing his view of why and how he is being “de facto” sanctioned.
He claimed that two weeks into the war in Ukraine, his foreign assets were frozen, including works of art and helicopters, which he said he couldn’t get from Germany for several months. Whatever he “saved from the robbery” he transferred to a bank in Switzerland, he said. He then spoke at length, about his money problems with the Swiss bank Credit Swiss, describing the legal process and complaining that he has not had access to his money for a year and a half. He said his protracted legal battles and restricted access to his money coincided with critical statements against him from the West.
He said that he was refusing to meet with the U.S. side due to “personal complexes.” He added that he believed it would be “counterproductive” to meet with the U.S. Ambassador or make political decisions while his access to funds was restricted. Mentioning “the complex” multiple times, he said: “I was not against the meeting as such. [However] I would not be able to make any decision productively, because I would have a complex that I am doing this for the money that is artificially blocked. If the artificial sanctions were be lifted, then I would be relieved of this complex.” He added: “I have a complex that I make any decision so that they give me back my money and not for the well-being of my country.”
Resetting Relations
“I think the cause and the problem behind everything is the war,” Ivanishvili said when asked how he sees a reset of Georgia’s relations with its partners. The war, he said, “intensified all kinds of relations and in some cases turned them upside down.” He said I hope the war will be over this year and this will take care of the of relations with partners.
Ivanishvili announced that “now as the problem went away”, meaning his financial troubles, he plans to meet with the U.S. Ambassador after the elections, which he communicated to Amb. Dunnigan. He said the reaction from the Ambassador was “very healthy” and he hopes to meet with her after the elections. He expressed hope that relations would return to normal after the war in Ukraine ends. He noted that the US will also soon have elections, adding that “America was always a priority for us.” He noted that for the reset to happen, Georgia would need “reciprocal steps” from the US, while also cautioning against the “euphoria.”
GD’s Plans: Banning the Opposition
Asked why the banning of the UNM came on the GD’s agenda only now, twelve years after it came to power, Ivanishvili said the reason was the ongoing trial in the Hague and “lack of resources.”
Recalling the first years of GD in power, he also said there were expectations of co-habitation, and that nobody would be arrested and prosecuted. Ivanishvili also said that GD was “eclectic” at the time, alleging this was one of the obstacles in taking a harsher stance towards the UNM.
Ivanishvili added that since then Georgian Dream team got “more experienced” and “more aggressive, in a good way” toward the opposition, including as a result of processes surrounding the ongoing war in Ukraine.
Describing these processes, he claimed that one of the high officials of a country he did not name suggested to former Prime Minister Irakli Garibashvili to go to war against Russia. According to Ivanishvili an official told the then PM Garibashvili: “You are three to four million, just in three days, they would not kill you all. You can have with partisan movement, go in the forests and we would help you.”
He reiterated that the “collective UNM” acts “slavishly” to the forces that are preparing Georgia for war. He added that two opposition forces, namely Lelo and Gakharia’s For Georgia, are well aware of the UNM’s goals, and that is why these two are particularly dangerous forces. “If we do not get rid of these forces in the country… you see have seen what ‘s been happening during twelve years: the continuous revolutionary situation,” Ivanishvili lamented, saying that Georgia is facing “unprecedented” interference in the elections from the West.
“The [GD] team is committed. We are not attacking anyone. We want to keep this country so that it is suitable for living for us and our children,” Ivanishvili said, adding, “We are aggressively defending ourselves as we see what a formidable forces is fighting us from abroad.”
“Those who are enemies of the people and enemies the country must be banned,” Ivanishvili said when asked why this plan is seen by others as the GD’s anti-democratic intention to ban the opposition as a whole. He added there are many examples of this happening around the world.
“The [mere] winning of the elections is not decisive, that is why I say that we need a constitutional majority to ban them and get rid of them,” he said, threatening viewers with the dangerous consequences of the UNM having even the slightest germ of power.
He said that GD is a “patriotic” and “transparent” force. He then said: “If there is something or someone positive, he/she quickly becomes a member of GD… There won’t be another such force from outside GD, because everyone who is positive and loves the country will find a place in us. Then there is another force that gets huge inexhaustible energy from outside to somehow get back the power and run the country according to the wishes from outside”.
He then added, “Once this force is removed, there will be many opponents to GD. I’m waiting for that day, it will be the happiest day for me. We must give people the opportunity to choose between good and better. These are not elections… the evil power is coming, it’s energy never ends, because a huge power supports it from abroad”. He reiterated that GD needs the constitutional majority and legitimacy to get rid of the opponents and said that GD plans to hold another Nuremberg trial for them.
LGBT Propaganda
Ivanishvili once again hit the opposition, this time for not participating in the legislative process by boycotting the parliamentary work on the adopting of the anti-LGBT law, which the GD presents as aimed at protecting family values and minors.
Ivanishvili took credit for passing the anti-discrimination law and flattered the LGBT community, saying they were “normal people,” but adding that LGBT “propaganda” is not acceptable.
Ivanishvili said that “orgies in the streets”, which may sound normal to others, begin with granting sexual minorities the right to take to the streets.
He said the idea of LGBT propaganda is that “a person should not know who they are” and that they are easily controlled.
He also equated the problem of pedophiles with LGBT people, condemned gender reassignment surgery, and spelled out many other homophobic narratives against the LGBT.
Apology for War
Justifying his earlier broach of apologizing for the 2008 war, which prompted controversy in the society, Ivanishvili said the reason for the opposition’s outrage was its attempt to cover up its misdeeds. Noting that “apologizing is necessary for reconciliation” he claimed that the opposition was twisting his words as if Ivanishvili wanted to apologize to Russia. He further blamed the opposition for fulfilling the orders from outside, saying the opposition does not want the reconciliation.
Opposition Campaign and Election Aftermath
Ivanishvili said that the opposition “looks miserable” and claimed that its representatives “cannot even approach people” recalling that opposition did not address demonstrators from the stage during the October 20 rally. He said that the opposition has no electoral program and is only busy with GD-bashing and criticizing.
Ivanishvili criticized the opposition for framing the election as a choice between their European path and the GD’s Russian one. He accused the opposition of forgetting their homeland and focusing elsewhere. “They don’t love the country, they are people without a homeland,” Ivanishvili said.
Civil Society
“I didn’t know the meaning of the word stigmatization, Kobakhidze explained it to me,” said Ivanishvili, commenting on the Russian-style Foreign Agents law, which the civil society has claimed stigmatizes it.
Ivanishvili questioned the goals of CSOs’ work, saying that if they are doing great work for the country, they should be proud and not resist transparency. He criticized the youth who call the law a “Russian law” saying it is the fault of “pseudo-liberal” ideology, which does not teach youth the analytical thinking.
He also claimed that Georgian law is not based on Russian legislation, but on that of the European Union.
October 26 Elections
“In 2012 I was more active […] but I think today [election] is more important,” Ivanishvili said at the end of the hour-and-a-half interview, adding that he was younger too and recalling sentimentally his first rallies before October 2012, when he forced UNM out of office.
“We no longer have time to walk on a razor’s edge,” he said, insisting on the need to outlaw the UNM.
He concluded with an appeal to citizens to rush to the ballot boxes and vote for 41, the Georgian Dream, promising that in the future they will have a “real” opposition to choose between “good” and “better,” something he said Georgians unfortunately do not have the luxury of now.
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